Talk:The Partisans

How to use this page
Put your questions and ideas for the new campaign here. "Add topic" makes a new heading if you want to help keep things organized. It's also handy if you sign your comments so we all know who's talking (use 3 tildes at the end of the line and it will add your user name). Looking forward to another fun campaign with all of you! Belovedporcupine (talk)

The Test Pilot
My preliminary character concept is a human Ace (Rigger). He's an aging fighter test pilot who has spent most of his post-military life building a custom starfighter (roughly modeled on the A-wing, but with some differences). I'm pretty sure that when the game starts he doesn't have access to that ship. Either he had to abandon it when the Imperials moved in and will need to retrieve it as part of an early mission for the Alliance, or elements of the Alliance found and impounded it and are refusing to return it until he proves himself trustworthy.

I'm not really interested in spending all my time rolling dice to see how awesome I make my ship (Noel and Eric K. enjoy that sort of thing more than I do), so I'm kind of cobbling together a milestone system wherein every time we successfully carry out a mission focused on my Duty (still kind of sorting out exactly what that means, as the Duty system has some vagueness around how much and for whom it increases and when), I pick a new upgrade from a pre-built list and apply it to the base starfighter (with the acquisition of the prototype being the first of these milestones). This is intended to abstract stealing supplies for my personal project while carrying out the official mission, with the work itself taking place off-screen during downtime (starting with Intellect 4 + Mechanics 2, my mechanical capabilities support this narrative). This is obviously contingent on group buy-in and GM approval.

As I was tinkering with this little system, it occurred to me that it might be useful for other characters who are similarly focused on personal goals beyond those of the Rebellion - including those Force sensitives who need special training to buy new Force powers.

I'll probably eventually work up some thing that causes my prototype to malfunction in entertaining ways now and again, but I've probably already devoted more thought to this than I should have at this stage.

Dayzdark (talk)

Character Generation Thoughts
I feel like one of the biggest bottlenecks in character generation is how difficult it is to play outside of a species. If you have a 1 Brawn, 3 Cunning species that you want to play for the background, you're heavily locked into playing a social character regardless of if that is what you want to do. I want to throw the idea around of being able to flex those starting characteristics a little bit. My thought is to reduce each characteristic by 1 and then allow players to add those points as they see fit before spending starting XP on characteristics (impose a maximum of like 4 or 3). Obviously there would be a minimum stat of 1. This would allow races with a specialty, like Wookies, to still have a nod to it without that being the overwhelming characteristic. I also think this would help a lot of the "generalist" species to be a little more useful and that this could encourage more use/purchase of skills and talents instead of dumping every single possible point into characteristics.

Eustacio (talk)


 * I am willing to consider this on a case by case basis - this helps me understand better what your concern was, so thank you for clarifying. I would be slightly more inclined to have you swap around the existing array of stats instead of what you propose (so you still have a 1 and a 3, you just get to decide where those go), and would definitely cap the max at 3 regardless (PCs gaining extremely high characteristics extremely quickly is another thing that is bringing the current campaign to a more rapid end than we perhaps anticipated). If I'm doing my math right, the way you propose would allow for a 1/1/2/2/3/3 starting split; it looks like most of the species that get an array like that have lower starting XP to compensate, so without accounting for that we both crank up the power level again and put anyone who doesn't homebrew at a disadvantage. Belovedporcupine (talk)


 * I agree with Beth, that a swap would be a better way to maintain balance as opposed to a full re-build. I would even go so far as to suggest perhaps just one swap instead of a fully mobile array of stats. I understand the frustration of wanting to play a vigilant Wookie, for example, but having to spend a bunch of points to make that feasible since willpower is a 1 in their starting build. I do think that the game creators made the stat arrays and special species characteristics the way they did to best reflect the species and create interest and difference, as well as benefit to picking different species and to create balance in the game. I would suggest that perhaps Eus makes his specific request of the GM and then mmaybe the group rather than adding this extra step for every person building a character. Peloria (talk)


 * I feel it's fair to point out that Wookiees make the perfect example of why some sort of swap system seems reasonable. Because the Wookies somehow have a higher Presence than Willpower, despite the fact they refuse to speak Basic (or can't? I'm not sure) and are known for their Wookie Rage. Regardless, I'm okay if Beth allows for some sort of swap. Eustacio (talk)


 * Wookiees don't speak galactic basic because they lack the ability to make those noises. Treehead (talk)


 * I haven't looked at every species, but for the most part, the ones with a 3, a 1, and a bunch of 2s get 100 XP vs. 110 for humans who have all 2s. This is mathematically correct. The cost of raising 2 to 3 is 30 XP, while the "refund value" of lowering a Characteristic from 2 to 1 is only 20 XP, for a net advantage of 10 XP. A 3/3/2/2/1/1 split would be an effective 20 XP gain, so math alone would suggest 90 XP is what most of them would get. Glancing though several species on the FFG SW wiki, most of them support that math, and those that don't usually receive fewer than 90 XP.


 * Taken together, I'm in agreement with Beth. Moving around the 3 and/or 1 is probably fine. I'd say turning a 3/1/2/2/2/2 spread into an all-2s spread and +10 XP is probably also fine, as is -10 XP to turn an all-2s spread into a 3/1/2/2/2/2 spread, but I leave that to the group. Let's be honest about those 3/3/2/2/1/1 species - a 1 Characteristic is basically an automatic failure. Have you noticed that whenever anyone has to roll with that Characteristic they kind of sigh and expect the hurting. Nawah and Vic can't lie worth a damn, and the Brawn 1 triplets fail virtually every Athletics roll we make. With a 3/1/2/2/2/2 spread, that's just the price you pay, but I can't imagine how sucky it would be to have 1s in two different characteristics. It just opens the door to min-maxing that might seem flavorful and fun but is just going to be endlessly frustrating when 1/3+ of your rolls are auto-fails.

Dayzdark (talk)

Money and Gear
This isn't as much a suggestion as it is a thought, but we should have a conversation about how gear/money is going to be handled. We haven't gotten a lot of money in our current game (some folks are still running around with starting armor and gear). If anyone wants to play a crafter/mechanic or has a concept that would want to be upgrading gear, some expectations should be set as to what we're going to have access to. Nawah's 200 credits per session was far more powerful than it had any right to be given our typical income.

Eustacio (talk)

Is anyone super-invested in modding this time around?

My general take is I want things to be much, much more abstracted. I don't want to have to burglarize someone's apartment just to get my hands on a bog standard blaster because we're too poor for me to actually buy one. Presumably, if we work for the Alliance (even in its infancy), we have semi-regular access to basic gear suitable for each mission. But even then, I don't want it to be "you have a budget of X,000 credits; go-go-gadget bean-counters." I kinda just want something like the equipment lists in Blades in the Dark, where your class gives you automatic access to X many things that make sense for that character to have and/or Y many things that make sense for any character to have. You pick your load-out at mission start and go.

Bog standard blasters, armor, and other gear cost a load-out slot even if it has nothing to do with your specific character concept. Slightly more exotic gear costs two slots - or just one slot if it's relevant to your character concept (species and/or Specialization). Really weird stuff costs two slots if it matches your character concept and isn't available at all if it doesn't. Nobody gets a bowcaster except the Wookie, and I don't think it breaks anything to let the slicer have good slicing gear or for the politico from a wealthy family have some fancy clothes.

Maybe handle your signature equipment using a personal milestone system - possibly one where you earn a "milestone point" each time Duty resets to 0 that entitles you to get one new cool signature thing (or an upgrade to an existing thing). That signature thing could also be something intangible like a Force mentor.

Weapons and most other equipment would be a lot to abstract on this page, but armor could be abstracted as:

Load-out 1 (anyone): Defense 1 or Soak 1

Load-out 1 (with Specialization) or 2 (without): +1 Defense, +1 Soak, or some special benefit (such as adding a Boost die to certain rolls)

Load-out 2 with Specialization: Pick two of the options above.

Anything better than that involves a signature item.

Stuff like that.

Dayzdark (talk)


 * I haven't given any serious thought to what type of character I want to play. But I do know the equipment/gear section of this game is extensive, and restricting everyone to a Soak 1 armor for the entire game is going to result in people falling over a lot since they'll be missing things like Reflect to reduce damage, especially the people who don't crank their Brawn up to 3. I don't know that I can agree with a system that, from what I understand it as, you get a couple sets of items for the entire game, no upgrades possible. I may be misunderstanding it, however, as I have no familiarity with Blades in the Dark.

Eustacio (talk)

To clarify, that's 1 or 1; then 2 and 0, 1 and 1, or 0 and 2; and then potentially 2 and 1 or 1 and 2. Signatures are a different matter and should be upgradable. Perhaps the first Soak or Defense is "free," since Heavy Clothing and Concealing Robes are so cheap as to be ubiquitous. Also, a load-out is just that: the gear you get to use between resupplies (every 2-4 sessions, generally). You can swap out for a completely different set of gear before the next mission.

I'm not a big fan of being nickel-and-dimed for every concussion grenade I use, but I think an abstracted system that doesn't rely on tracking every credit earned or spent is fundamentally incompatible with one where upgrading equipment involves tracking every credit you spend and every Mechanics roll result. It's possible to come up with something much more elegant than equipment lists with credit costs. But if folks are married to mods as written, I'm not going to spend a bunch of time designing a new system for it. I know Noel really enjoyed fiddling with them, and I think you did, as well. But as someone who intends to be Mechanics-focused, it wouldn't bother me to take an abstracted, narrative-focused approach to them that captures their spirit without the angst of there being no equipment/mod that does what I want without requiring 15,000 credits and the good will of an illegal arms dealer.

Dayzdark (talk)

Off the top my head, I've got a few concerns about completely abstracting the money and gear systems.


 * You've killed the Negotiation skill completely. The skill only has to do with increasing how much you sell things for or how much you buy things for. If money is abstracted, that skill drops in value heavily at best.
 * Streetwise takes a nerf (not as bad as Negotiation, but somewhat).
 * Related to Negotiation, every talent that touches Negotiation has been nerfed.
 * Further related to Negotiation, every Career and Specialization that gives it as a class skill just got a nerf.
 * The Entrepreneur and Quartermaster Specializations are basically eliminated from use. Most of their talents are just unworkable in that system.
 * I have no idea how you handle someone who wants to do a cybernetics build in this system, especially as the Specializations that handle cybernetics are going to be strongly impacted.
 * All of the Mechanics-focused Specializations are going to have significant impacts to their various talents.

I don't have an inherent dislike of abstraction, but I think this change hits a ton of systems, talents, specializations and mechanics that will have a lot of ripple effects we haven't seen. The existing issues, I think, could be solved by us having access to a larger pool of credits.

I do think abstracting some of the minor stuff, like stimpaks and grenades and things like that, is perfectly reasonable. Tracking the cost of stimpaks was annoying.

Eustacio (talk)

All of which are valid concerns, which is why I don't think we can resolve this conversation until we know more about which characters everyone is playing. If no one is playing a heavy Negotiation character (or if any who are are as disinterested in rolling to determine how many credits they knock off the list price of a stimpak as I am about rolling to see how good I can soup up my prototype starfighter's ion thrusters), then your objections on that front might well be moot.

(Incidentally, I can see several ways to adjust how Negotiation works so that it is just as valuable as it is in the current system - and potentially more valuable - that don't involve tracking expenses to the hundredth of a credit.)

Dayzdark (talk)

Rumors and Mission Seeds
One of the things that was the most fun about our Firefly game was coming up with rumors for Beth to include in the game. Some were unconnected to anything, but others touched on character secrets in interesting ways (which is why we didn't share them with the other players - just gave them to her in secret). I think it would be fun to do something like that for this game, but rather than just rumors, possible mission seeds that could 1) touch on our characters' personal histories and loyalties and/or 2) refer to stuff that happened or was written into backgrounds in our current game that didn't really come to light/fruition but might still be out there somewhere.

Dayzdark (talk)

Force powers
Beth, you mentioned earmarking a specific Force power that a Force character has some innate talent in and would not need another to train them.

What about ear marking a level 1, level 2 and level 3 power- as long as there is a narrative reason that this makes sense for the character? For example, the character has been exposed to the power, the character has training in some non-Force talent/skill that is related or the character has some sort of religious background or faith that would predispose them to developing such a power as their strength in the force grows?

Level 3 may never be reached in a slow grow game, but it would be nice to have the option.

Otherwise, perhaps the player of a force user could request certain mentorship that could occur.

Basically, the power that I most closely associated with my concept is a level 2 power. I hadn't realized this until reading the book this weekend. Peloria (talk)
 * This would fall under telling me where you want to go with your character so I can create plots that enable them to develop the way you want. Basically, if you let me know you're interested in having your character develop a particular power, the game provides a teacher for it in the near future after the requisite story hoops are jumped through. I want everyone to be able to buy whatever powers they ultimately want, but I also want to be able to get some interesting plots out of the process of doing so since we're in a part of the timeline where it is so much more difficult to access mentorship. If I give out too many "no justification needed" powers, I shut myself out of being able to tell those stories, which I don't want. Another alternative would be to earmark the level 2 power and just accept that your character isn't going to have much in the way of Force powers to play with until you can get down to Force rating +1 on the tree (or until you find a teacher through story means - or within the party - for one that works at Force rating 1). Then you can freely improve the level 2 power at that time, no teacher needed. Make sense? Belovedporcupine (talk)

Universal force trees and skills
Down the line in this game it is very likely that I will want to take a second universal force tree in order to be able to get to Force rating three. The first time I take one of these it will give me force rating 1. The second time, however, it will not give me a force rating and as written it will give no bonus career skills either. Would GMs be willing to create a skill set that would go with the (secone) Force tree (purchased) so I get something from spend those (30/40?) points the same as another player character who is not taking a universal force trees would get?

As a note, the other universal trees which are not noted as giving a 1 in the force have associated skills. Peloria (talk)
 * Yeah, the system doesn't really seem to have been set up with the idea of people taking multiple Force-related universal specializations, which is a bit of an oversight. I would likely be willing to let you (or anyone else) choose 3-4 logical career skills to go along with a second Force tree. Let me also poke around on forums and subreddits and stuff to see how others have handled it in the past, since for all I know this could be a solved problem as far as other gaming groups are concerned. Belovedporcupine (talk)

This is a super technical question that came to my mind when browsing for classes for my own character. Does the Jedi count as available, since it isn't actually, as far as I'm aware, a Force & Destiny tree? Probably best to clarify that.

Eustacio (talk)
 * quoting the front page: "Force-sensitive PCs are permitted, but must gain their Force sensitivity by purchasing a universal specialization in addition to their career specialization." Since the Jedi Career is not a universal specialization and Beth has said the reason is there are no Jedi anymore... I would guess that this is a no. Peloria (talk)
 * Correct. The Jedi career is not a universal specialization and is NOT available for use in this campaign. Belovedporcupine (talk)
 * This makes sense, but my brain, the other night, absolutely thought it might technically count. I don't know that it was operating at peak efficiency. Thanks for indulging my question! Eustacio (talk)

Skills Question
So I am trying to get a starting point for a skills-based character I am potentially designing for this game, and I am curious where our current gaps in skills are. Of the following skills, are there some which are already somebody's planned "viking" rolls?

-Charm (Pr)

-Coercion (Will)

-Computers (Int)

-Deception (Cun)

-Leadership (Pr)

-Mechanics (Int)

-Medicine (Int)

-Negotiation (Pr)

-Skullduggery (Cun)

-Stealth (Ag)

-Streetwise (Cun)

-Survival (Cun)

Left the piloting and passive-y type skills off the list, because I believe someone called pilot already. I believe Mark was doing a Leadershippy thing (does that involve the skill)? And that Rachel is doing Medicine? Anyone else know skills yet? Treehead (talk)


 * My current build includes Mechanics, Piloting (Space), and Gunnery 2, as well as a rank in Ranged (Light), Knowledge (Education), and Knowledge (Warfare). Depending on our bonus XP ration, Piloting (Space) and/or Mechanics could go as high as 3 (Mechanics gets priority), as those are my Viking skills. Intellect is my primary characteristic at 4 and Agility is secondary at 3, so I'll be generally good at all the skills related to those, which is literally half the skills in the game. Dayzdark (talk)


 * Skill 3+ is out, so I've made a couple minor adjustments. Probably swapping out Education for Core Worlds (fits the biography a bit better, although both make sense). Adding Astrogation and Knowledge (Underworld) 1. For Talents, current build has Gearhead, Black Market Contacts, and Grit. I really like the flavor of BMC (else I'd just Toughened it away), but it runs straight into "cash spreadsheet" territory, so depending on how we end up handling money, it might require some modification. No rush on that, as I'm not sure whose characters care about money mechanically; Pinocchio might, if Eric is delving into cybernetics. Dayzdark (talk)


 * As the person who handled money for most of this game, Black Market Contacts is complete trash. Knocking rarity down by 1 rank at a 50% mark-up is completely not worth it. Toughen it away is my advice. Literally the worst money-related talent in the game. Eustacio (talk)


 * I was definitely looking at the Commander Trees all of which will have a Leadership leaning but there are some differences in what other skills and attributes would be needed beyond Presence. Once I have an idea of what would go with the party I might narrow it more but am in no hurry. (talk)


 * If it helps, I'm getting increasingly firm on 30 XP as the starting bonus amount as that would allow the Force users to use it for their universal specialization and one basic power, which I understand is desirable. Belovedporcupine (talk)
 * My character's biggest stats will be Will and Intelligence. Pr and Cun will be her lowest areas of focus.Peloria (talk) Ok this is in flux. I am currently thinking about coercion and stealth being areas I lean into. Int, Will and Agility will be the big stats for me.Peloria (talk)
 * I haven't decided yet what I'm going for exactly, but I'm probably keeping out of the social skill area this go around, at least to any real extent. I'm leaning towards a physical primary build of some stripe at this time. Eustacio (talk)
 * I have moved a bit away from my original concept of "big melee dude with a broken cybernetic arm and a force power to activate it" since it relied a bit too much on Force and Destiny trees and I was finding it hard to build with a broad enough skillset. However, I still want to do something that toe-dips into the force since I didn't do it last game and I'm enamored with a melee fighter. My current idea is a Clawdite Spy-(Sleeper Agent or Infiltrator, maybe both eventually) with Force-Sensitive Emergent and Influence. I'd be focusing on Brawn and Cunning skills, especially Deception and Melee as my Viking rolls. SirDragos (talk)
 * Okay, more stuff being kicked around. Probably gonna have a good intelligence on this character now. I'll probably know more when I figure out career/specialization.


 * So, at least Balthamir's character will have a good presence rating? Because it looks like the rest of us are not headed in that direction at all. Treehead? Now that you know what the rest of us are thinking, where does that leave you? Peloria (talk)

Character Concept: The Droid With a Soul
I only have the most basic idea for this character concept, but my idea is that I'm going to play a droid who is 100% convinced that they are an Organic. I haven't decided what species of Organic or anything like that, but they will be completely unable to be convinced that they are not an Organic.

This chronicle shall be the Chronicle of Misfit Droids.

Eustacio (talk)